Inside PepsiCo’s Data Partnerships and Measurement with Zach Lain

What if the real power of data wasn’t in dashboards, but in shaping how brands grow and connect across the world?

On this episode of Breaking Through the Mayhem, host Ben Lambert sits down with Zach Lain, Director of Global Data Partnerships at PepsiCo, to unpack how he’s helping one of the world’s biggest CPGs balance global consistency with local relevance. From rethinking CTV measurement to scaling data systems across 200+ markets, Zach shares lessons on leadership, culture, and why small wins drive lasting impact.

They cover:

• The shift from click-throughs to outcome-based measurement
• How PepsiCo navigates brand priorities across markets
• Why speaking up with informed opinions matters
• The habits and mindset that fuel resilience, from swimming to solo travel

A candid look at how one of the world’s biggest brands is rewriting the playbook for data partnerships and measurement.

TRANSCRIPT

Ben Lambert
Hey, everybody, welcome to another incredible episode of Breaking Through the Mayhem. I'm your host, Ben Lambert from Sightly excited to be joined here by Zach Lain.

Zach is the director of global partnerships at PepsiCo. Zach, welcome. Welcome to the podcast.

Zach Lain
Thanks, man. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Ben Lambert
Yeah, excited for us to chat in this formal podcast setting. I know you and I have become pretty close friends over our numerous beat retreat hangouts. Shout out to Andy for connecting us, at the wonderful retreats.

I would love for you to give our listeners a little bit of a background into your career journey and what, you know, brought you into the world, the fun world of data and, and leading that, that charge over at PepsiCo.

Zach Lain
Well, thanks, Ben, for having me. Thank you Sightly team. This is awesome. Yeah. I mean, maybe I might spin the old wheel back a little too far, but, I mean, I think, Ben, you and I might have even spoken about this, I think. I think if I look back, you know, I really got interested in data as a kid. I remember being fascinated by the Chinese language. You know, first off, people were drawing pictures for their language.

It's like, oh, snap, that's like really, really cool. You quickly learn that's really not the case. But once you start learning Chinese, you know, I got hooked on the structure behind it. You know, there's patterns, there's logic. The way a meaning is built into the characters themselves then imbue a larger thought. You know, I think that curiosity about how information is organized but really interpreted stuck with me.

You know, I actually went to grad school in China, but I think that was like my first touchpoint, if you will. Maybe it's pushing it, but with data per se. You know, fast forward to my career. I started working in media and analytics, by way of spending a few years at Dow Jones, the publisher of the Wall Street Journal.

For folks that don't know, Dow Jones has an entire data product suite built on delivering news content in real time to other platforms. So I work directly with the folks who were pumping data into making sure, you know, they didn't break. They broke all the time. And my clients kept abreast of all, you know, the latest and greatest new data that we were adjusting, the new news content.

We were just and it was a really hard roll, but it was really fun for like, a lot of words, you know, it made me kind of think how we could use data not just to answer what happened, but why. And what should we do next? You know, from there I spent a little bit more time. Hands and keys, rolls and blood.

Sweat and many tears. Rolls in adtech. Which was CP afterwards, after and eventually migrating to PepsiCo. Which was new at the time, but setting up a global data and analytics team where we could bring that big global, huge organization focus to, you know, to local problems, to brand problems across media. So for me, the whole publisher to platform to brand arc has been kind of fun, and has been nice.

It's been undergirded by this. I don't know, quest is just one word, but this, you know, this interest in understanding how things work at that system level. And I think this lens is really shaped in how I approach data. It's not just a tool, but it can really be a framework for, for future problem solving.

Ben Lambert
That's awesome. And the Chinese lettering conversation as art and language is a really cool one. And very impressive. And, are you fluent in Chinese?

Zach Lain
I was, I will tell you that I was, but Chinese is one of those things like, man, it's like, use it or lose it. And just because it's tonal and, you know, we don't understand tones.

Tones aren't imbued in English. I could spend the whole podcast talking about this, but, involved in this, and so, that's the part that's, that's hard. These minute differences in sound mean radically different things. So I'm probably decent. I'm decent. I wouldn't say I'm fluent anymore. Sadly.

Ben Lambert
When you see people with tattoos in Chinese lettering, I feel like everybody always thinks it means one thing. Does it actually mean that for the most part, or…

Zach Lain
That's a funny question. Like, I've never seen anyone like I've seen on TikTok or Instagram where, you know, people get things that say really inappropriate things. I've never seen that, but I've seen things that mean, like really basic like really, really like not poignant thoughts.

You know, maybe this is just like, you know, like thunder or something, but it's like, I don't know, like, I feel like it should be something more impactful than that. But anyway. Yeah, nothing too crazy. Nothing too crazy.

Ben Lambert
Okay. Because I remember as a kid I was a big, like, hat person. Like, I wanted every type of hat that all of my teams, you know, and lids.

When lids first came out and, you know, I wanted every different type of hat. And at the time, the Chinese lettering hats were the cool thing to have the team names in Chinese lettering. I just believed that it was right. And I feel like because it was, you know, commercialized, you hope that it was right.

Zach Lain
Hopefully.

Ben Lambert
Yeah. But the translation is, it is definitely not an apples to apples translation, you know.

Zach Lain
It definitely got especially some of those team names. Those don’t translate well, I guess. So -

Ben Lambert
No. But I can definitely see you know seeing that of the data the data connection and, and a really a really deep one for you.

You know, and I think looking back when everyone looks back at their childhood of like, what was the one thing that really shaped, shaped your career, and it was Chinese. That's really cool. Yeah.

Zach Lain
Cool. Thanks.

Ben Lambert
Well, I know one of the other, the other big pieces that, you know, helped shape, shape your career in kind of your, your work ethic. You were a competitive swimmer. Which again, leads to, you know, the tattoos and the Chinese letters and conversations. I feel like there's definitely some synergy there. But, you know, talk about, you know, I know you were a distance swimmer, if I remember correctly. Yeah. Which I have. It's funny. My sister was a competitive swimmer, and she also was a distance swimmer.

I have many friends that weren't I every single person that I meet, that's like, yeah, I swam in college or I swam this like the 500. The 500 was their event.

Zach Lain
The worst.

Ben Lambert
And it's like this, that in the 1650, which is the mile, is brutal but you have to really shape your work ethic and thought process. Do you look back on all those training and all those events the same way you look back on the Chinese lettering and think that it had a big impact on your, your growth and career?

Zach Lain
Ooo it definitely did. But swimming I joke/not joke to people. I'm a swammer like I did. I did my time. I went through the trauma like I did. I have dreams about swimming all the time. It's still about like, you know, being better.

Ben Lambert
That's better than the people that have the dreams of, like, drowning, like the perpetual dream of drowning. So I think dreaming about swimming is more of a positive.

Zach Lain
Always finding the silver lining. It's true. Not drowning. Yeah. No, I mean, I think for me, I was never the fastest guy on the team. I mean, pretty far from it. I think. Looking back now, though, if we're trying to divine something from the proverbial like tea leaves here, it is pretty clear that swimming instilled in me habits of, you know, being consistent.

Incremental progress. So I think about, you know, now that you know very much how to have a small wins mindset, you know, the name of the game is to make those consistent as measurable, those iterative improvements over time. If you make a great big breakthrough, you know, you drop a bunch of time in your race or you do something really great at work.

Amazing, awesome. But I think that process, that North Star should really be focused on evolution versus revolution. So that was always kind of how I approached swimming. And I think that's what I take from swimming. You know, those five AM practices, those, you know, your parents driving you across the state, the country, into sort of a more professional setting now?

Ben Lambert
Yeah. It's the discipline in the work ethic, swimming is. I mean, track is probably similar. There's there's similarities, but that amount of practice and the hours and all for you know, again you were distance or at least come race time you, you were in the pool longer than the sprinters. But it definitely does lead to, you know, that discipline and kind of those little wins.

Zach Lain
Whether you like it or not, that's what's coming for you.

Ben Lambert
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Zach Lain
Exactly. BEN So another one and this is, this is one that is since you brought up the Chinese lettering and we brought up tattoos. I'm not somebody that has a tattoo. Or will probably ever get one. But talking about swimming and, you know, knowing that there are a select few of Olympians that actually, you know, do if you were to get a tattoo, if you were an Olympian, where would you get the Olympic rings tattoo?

And do you believe that if you were an Olympian, you would have to get the Olympic ring tattoos? Because my feeling is you're in this 1% of athletes that, you know, you've got to flaunt it. Also knowing that, you know, if you are an Olympic athlete, you probably have the physique that will.

Zach Lain
Yeah, sure.

Ben Lambert
We'll go along with it.

Zach Lain
Interesting question. I also don't have any tattoos, but a short answer. Yes. I think you would get one. Maybe this is like a weird detail, but if you are. So if you're an Olympic athlete, you're really fit. You know, you have no body fat. What if the tattoos hurt more? I guess depending on where you're getting it, I have a low pain tolerance.

So maybe my mind goes immediately to that. It's like, oh crap, if you don't have any fat. But where would I get it? I would not get it on like my shin. No, I can't imagine that sounds super painful. Maybe my thigh. I think that's kind of cool. Could be cool.

Ben Lambert
Okay.

Zach Lain
I have no tattoos and no interest either.

Ben Lambert
I, I never I never thought about the pain aspect to it. I, I was always an inner bicep. Because to your point, you're an Olympic athlete. You have no body fat. You're probably a lot more jacked than I am. And so, you know, the bulging bicep. And it's somewhat hidden that the only time, you know, is when you open your eyes.

Zach Lain
It's a good point there.

Ben Lambert
But also still pretty prevalent when you know, if you're wearing a t- shirt, it's going to slide. Yeah, you can see the limits of it. But yeah, it's always I always find it to be an interesting question because people people, it's most of us, you know, I don't know too many Olympic athletes, I don't know, you know, so having that conversation, it's a great it's a great what if.

Zach Lain
Interesting. That's cool.

Ben Lambert
Yes. Oh, cool. So back to back to some data. Data partnerships. Here at Pepsi. So would love to, you know, kind of help people get a better understanding of what actually does, you know, global partnerships entail for a massive CPG company like Pepsi. You know, and kind of what you've seen as some misunderstandings, whether it be, you know, trying to explain to your parents what actually it is that you do for work or even people in the industry that maybe think one thing versus another.

Zach Lain
Oh, I think I mean, that could be another question, too. That could be a media question. What do your parents think they do or you do? I think my parents think I'm like the madman style of, you know, like the two three martini lunch, two martini lunch, like that type of stuff. I like the old school way of, that sounds, but, but it's a good question.

What do people misunderstand about, you know, a team like a data partnership team at a company that sells chips and soda, like PepsiCo? You know, I think to kind of zoom out a little bit working at a company like PepsiCo, I think the challenge here is that it's the challenge and the opportunity is the same thing is that it is a brand led organization.

You know, the brands control everything. The challenge is navigating the diversity of the portfolio and aligning across very different brand priorities. Even take, you know, very well known brands, one on beverage, one on snacks for us, you know, take Cheetos and Mountain Dew. They're both totally iconic, but they're quite a bit different in terms of their audience, their voice, their innovation cycle, you know, their GTM strategy.

You know, what works for one might be completely off base for the other. Then you even take the crazier, other, crazier brands. But the more you know, then you think about our brands like Captain Crunch or Sabra Hummus or Muscle Milk that are even further or a little bit farther from the core here then, you know, layer and different tech stacks, different personnel, different, just like know how you're left with this patchwork of priorities, of alignment, of resources, a budget.

But it's not just technical. I mentioned the tech stack. It's not just technical, it's that we have to be able to flex between those brand needs while still building a common data infrastructure and governance models. We've worked in over 200 markets around the world, which still is kind of crazy when I think about that. Over 200 markets around the world.

So, you know, being able to speak the language of each of those brands in each market, you know, while staying abreast with compliance and legal, all that fun stuff is really hard. So it's just balancing act, right, of creating a global consistency without killing that local relevance and building systems that serve both, as you know, for example, a a beverage brand and one of our new beverage brands trying to deepen and trying to drive digital engagement with, say, a snack brand that is focused more on, you know, launching a seasonal flavor.

So it's this balance between, you know, global continuity and local relevance is what's hard. Oh, it's hard to kind of find that sweet spot.

Ben Lambert
Yeah, I'd imagine that global to local aspects with both existing long, long existing brands versus the new kid on the block is quite a daily struggle for you finding the right smart data partnerships to help get that information so to understand how to grow the new guys.

But then also how to kind of maintain the old guys within their consumers and finding, finding the growth. Because at the end of the day, you're still trying to grow the existing brands and find new audiences that are going to engage them.

Zach Lain
Yeah.

Ben Lambert
But the focus on the newer ones is really about growth.

Zach Lain
Totally.

Ben Lambert
And that global a local has got to be fascinating at times for …

Zach Lain
There's a rub, there's a rub there, there's and figuring out, you know, it, it manifests differently in different markets, different brands.

You know Cheetos Pakistan has different needs than Cheetos Brazil, the same brand. But you know, the market relevance is quite different. The market positioning. And so how we use data, how we use technology to inform those strategies again has to manifest differently. So it means we're always busy. I think that's the takeaway. Always busy.

Ben Lambert
Yeah. And I assume from your lens being in a global role you've been able to see some really cool things. I mean you talked earlier about your, your love as a, as a kid for the Chinese language, but I'm sure that aspect too, of being able to see the world both from the data partnership lens as well as physically see the world has been a really cool opportunity in your role.

Zach Lain
Oh yeah, very much so. I mean, at the end of the day, my data strategy is finding new ways to understand our consumers and, you know, in novel ways across, you know, an increasingly wide set of snacking occasions. So, you know, how that manifests in China, very different than South Africa, very different to Canada. So that's been to your point, been pretty fascinating.

Ben Lambert
Yeah. That's awesome. So I would love to to kind of take a step back a little bit here and, and talk a little bit about, you know, we talked about your career trajectory and your growth and, and has there been any, whether it be one person or a group of people or, you know, I know we've we've been to events before in the networking and you know, I know we share some, some mutual friends that have been incredible leaders, you know, to follow and pay attention to,

you know, but what kind of advice has really stuck with you as you've grown in your career and you look to kind of continue to grow your career? That you, you know, try to emulate as much as you can on a daily basis.

Zach Lain
I talk about this often. You know, I was on the phone this morning with someone and talked about this. You know, the one piece of advice I genuinely believe. And again, I don't think anyone that answers this question is spilling some like, earth shattering thought here. But I think for me it's having an opinion. Like, obviously you need to be smart about it. You can't be rude. You need to have your facts and do the work. Don't be annoying.

But at the end of the day, right? We are employed by our respective employers to not just echo or recite. We're there to like, contextualize information, that perspective and really, you know, help others, help the business make better decisions. So, you know, I tell my team that we're here because our brains are being rented.

You know, like, especially in data roles, you know, we're not just relaying impression counts or, you know, pulling a chart, you know, or they say, here's what matters. Here's what I think we should do and here's why. So that's the mindset that I try to cultivate. You know, you don't have to have the loudest voice, but you do need to have a voice.

I think that's what moves the work forward in this. You know, for roles like ours, where we're trying to turn really complex ideas that honestly, at the end of the day, not too many people understand into digestible chunks. Having that opinion is so very necessary and so very important in kind of showing that work to there. So yeah, that's kind of my leadership advice

Ben Lambert
I love that.

Yeah, it's you know, a lot of times people are always quiet and reserved because they feel I'm a junior employee. And, you know, I shouldn't voice my opinion. And I just, you know, head down. I think, you know, our whether it be our parents or grandparents generation was very much head down to your work and then, you know, it'll go and to your point, it's not about being the loudest one in the room, but, you know, voicing an opinion and giving a thought, even if it's a different thought, doesn't necessarily mean it's bad.

And I think being the leader that accepts other people's thoughts, whether they're the same or different, is a really valuable quality. So that's awesome.

Zach Lain
I feel like my opinions that I share, with, you know, I heard someone say with radical candor are shot down like 90% of the time. So like, it's just fine.

I think the flip side of that is you also have to be you also have to, I don’t want to say accept yourself, but, like, be aware that you're probably going to be wrong or rejected most of the time. But, you know, that's what comes with it. That's how people grow. That's how you learn. That's how I learned to.

Ben Lambert
Yeah. And it's, it's to the rejection point too though. It's also being in the right environment. And as you've grown and found the right company in the right culture and the right place for you, where your, your opinions and your voice is accepted and you know that there's different just because your opinion isn't accepted in one place, it could be that you're not at the right place for you.

And finding that right company for you. And I think that's a lot of the advice that people I give when people are like, hey, I'm thinking about switching from, you know, agency side to sales or brand direct or client side, whatever it whatever it may be, it is, you know, it's finding the right culture for you that's going to allow you to grow, thrive and be heard.

And, you know, so it loves you know, how you've kind of felt that the Pepsi culture kind of embraces that, while also in your role of finding new data partnerships, looking at these different markets and kind of how that all intertwines.

Zach Lain
Yeah. The culture is hard. I mean, it's quite bumbling, and I think it's kind of meant to be hard.

It's meant to be hard. It has a strong culture and a unique culture. And again, to bring back what we were talking about earlier, Ben, it's my first time working at a brand led organization. So maybe folks listening that have worked at other CPG or other companies that are led by these brands will kind of feel this will resonate with this.

You know, these brands bring a lot of creative energy. They literally drive the business forward, but can also make things complex. You know, again, each one has its own identity, priorities, and one way of working. Then you take that and split it across two or different markets. Oh it's hard. I think one of the biggest challenges in a company like ours, in a role like mine, is distilling in retaining knowledge.

You know, we have external products, we have internal products, we have projects, we have programs. You know, they evolve, they shift, they start, they sunset. You know, things move quickly. Things move so quickly. And if we're not intentional about it, a lot of this knowledge that we've built as a team, you know, whether that's, you know, a SharePoint site or, you know, in someone's mind on someone's computer or learning series, it slips.

It does, it slips through the cracks. So, you know, there's that famous scene. I don't know if you watched Seinfeld when you were younger. But there's a scene when Jerry goes to rent a car in the rental agency. The lady there was like, we don't have a car. He says something like, anyone can take a reservation.

The hard part is that the hold is the most important part. I love Seinfeld so then, like, that's so true for this. Like, anyone can create learning, anyone can create learning pathways. Again, training points, docs, whatever. But the hard part is the hold of that. How do you create that evergreen knowledge and how do you percolate that?

So like an organization with 300,000 plus people like ours, you can use it even after you work on. So it's the whole. So I think that part in maintaining culture, at least in the data space that, you know, I plan that kind of we broadly play in it's clarity. It's consistent across all of that movement. You know, it informs, you know, how we build playbooks, how we structure our partnerships.

You know, contractually, you know, how we upskill. Teams are new tools. You know, I want to focus on not just moving fast because the business demands it. I want to move fast and then carry those learning forwards. Right. I think that's often maybe the less sexy side, the less cool part. It's like, how do we memorialize this? Because, you know, we are all going to change roles sometime.

We all may not work here. And then how do we make it easier for the next person than it was for us? Like, how do we kind of grease the wheels a little bit? So, you know, culture to me is I heard someone say that. So I'm not claiming ownership of this, but one of my old bosses, you know, culture is how you collaborate under pressure.

And it's like, ooh, it's short, it's pithy. I actually really like that. So again, focusing on not just building cool things, but building repeatable things, repeatable ways of working, I think that is certainly something I strive for, but I think has to be a focus for others going for it too.

Ben Lambert
Yeah. That's awesome. Is there anything in particular right now that you're kind of working on?
Within that culture that you're, you know, that is growing, that you're excited about, that you can speak to, about what you guys are doing.

Zach Lain
Yeah. I actually think this is a good, good one because it kind of illustrates that several different levers are changing. So right now I'm really excited about, you know, as a company like ours, you know, brand led, huge global.

You know, we are evolving our approach to CTV attribution, which is cool to see a company of our behemoth size actually do this. So, you know, a little bit of background CTV broke the attribution model that digital media has relied on for 10, 15 years. And honestly, that's a good thing. You know, most of that older model was built around identity level stitching, deterministic matching.

But CTV, you don't have that level of granularity anymore. So PepsiCo, we are leaning into more, I want to say a fancy word than cooler, but like cooler, cooler strategies, different strategies were leaning into probabilistic models, incrementality testing. We're leaning into outcome based cohort analysis. So we're not. I think this is key.

Like we're not trying to prove causality at the impression level. We're trying to prove impact at the behavior level. And that's a big difference for a company like ours. You know, again, budgets being siloed in the way that they are. You know, the brands are trying to, you know, maximize Roas. But if we can zoom out a little bit and have our North Star be, you know, impacted at the behavioral level, we can still do those things.

But I think it's a more profound way of looking at the problem. You know, what moved where and how did the media influence. So, you know, dovetailing with this and this is what I thought about earlier when you asked the question, that is that I'm seeing a culture shift internally, you know, my team, my stakeholders are asking for, you know, like click through rates on CTV anymore.

It's like, what does that even mean? You know, they're asking more impactful questions or acting, you know, did this campaign accelerate demand goal? Did we unlock a new high value segment? So that's a totally different bar. And it kind of pushes us to rethink what measurement looks like when it's built for outcomes and not just efficiency.

So again, I think that it's not so much a project per se, but it's several ongoing work streams that are upskilling how we approach a very real problem in a very cohesive and honestly quick, fashion that you know, I'm particularly excited to chat about for, so yeah.

Ben Lambert
Yeah, that's really cool too, because there has been a trend over the years of lower funnel, lower funnel, lower funnel of what's the role as what's the click through rate, what's the return on investment like.

And that's all anyone cares about. And then it's great to hear from Sightly’s perspective as our patented technology is Brand Mentality®. And you talked very heavily about your brand organization, vision and the importance basically of brand, and that everything you were just talking about from the behavioral changes should help to then drive the lower funnel and get there.

But, there's been this challenge from agencies, from brands, from partners to focus on the click through rates, focus on driving those lower funnels. And you can't focus on the lower funnel if you don't have you don't understand the audience. You don't understand the behavioral. You don't understand what's going to resonate with them. And that's really something that, you know, we've talked about for years.

I'd say with our Brand Mentality platform is how important it is to connect with the consumer and to pay attention. And, you know, every day we see these moments happening in our country, in the world that impact the individuals and being able to be that brand that, you know, culturally, you talked about it, obviously huge brand being Pepsi and the individual brands within there, but it doesn't mean that they can't still resonate with, the individuals.

And, you know, we've seen, you know, brands struggle and succeed with that for years. But it's really cool to hear that the cultural change is happening or has already happened there. For you though, I'm sure, tons of your partners.

Zach Lain
Yeah. And honestly, that's I think the coolest part. It's like it's I'm sure it is not just specific to PepsiCo. It's and we all have experiences like this across all where we worked where, you know, we may adopt something, a new way of working, a new tool. But, you know, people's hearts are really in it.

And like deep down, are we really going to do this in six months or really going a year? It's like, I think the answer is probably no, but this is something, you know, we're getting the tools, we're getting the buy in and it works super well together.

So yeah, it's not often I'll say that can happen, especially on a thorny issue like CTV attribution. So yeah. Yeah, it's been it's been an exciting few months.

Ben Lambert
Yeah. And I mean, especially in the CTV space, it's been, you know, how many years where people have been trying to figure out their CTV strategy and what to do with this.

Zach Lain
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, totally spot on.

Ben Lambert
Very cool. So switching gears a little bit to, you know, kind of outside of work, knowing that, you know, you live and breathe data every day and you're talking, you know, working long hours, you're traveling a ton for work and speaking on all these panels. How do you ground yourself and, you know, knowing that you are a swimmer, not a swimmer.

So that's not something that helps clear, clear your head. What do you do, you know, in your free time to help kind of unwind and shut down and relax?

Zach Lain
This is a good question. I'm a big, solo traveler, and I like being outside like I do. Caveat I should caveat that I do love traveling with my partner.

Of course. Great. 100%. But I find being alone with your thoughts. That sounds. I don't know if that sounds weird or sad, like being alone with your thoughts, whether it's like sweating in a forest or like navigating a chaotic city that you don't know. You know, it's good for the brain. I was out west, in California for Memorial Day, doing some hiking and some national parks.

And I always joke, but, like, not joke that like, like, sweating in a forest is therapy on a budget, right? It's like it's sweating. It's elevated oxygen. It's like being alone with your thoughts. I feel like I do my best thinking in moments like this. If you ever have, like a really thorny problem, like go sweat in a forest and be alone, and I guarantee it you will come back and you will at least need some inroads on that problem.

Ben Lambert
Has there been one forest that you've that has stood for more, therapeutic than another for you?

Zach Lain
It's none in the South because of the bugs, I'll tell you that. It's not me, I'm not messing around with those mosquitoes. So, it's. Oh, it's not that, I mean, you can't beat just like Colorado in the West, you know, it's just like that part of the country is so pretty.

So, but it's not the South. It's. That's for sure.

Ben Lambert
Okay. That's all right. Good, good. Good to know for anybody. Anybody listening? That doesn't like bugs, which it's probably. Most, just don't go south for it. No, it's it's 100% true. I think the, you know, like, everybody has their own unwind and, and ways of, of getting away.

But I'm with you on the, you know, sweat it out and step away and and it'll clear your mind and being outdoors I feel like living in, you know, New York City you kind of get trapped in that a little bit and forget what fresh air. It's why Central Park is such an amazing, you know, escape in the city.

But, yeah, those I've never, never really been in the jungle on a hike, but maybe I know you're solo on it, but maybe, maybe one day we'll, we'll get out there.

Zach Lain
Yeah, I like that. I like that we can probably organize an event. Yeah. That's fine. Yes.

Ben Lambert
There we go. We'll. We'll make Andy do another Beet Retreat. We'll do another Beet retreat.

Zach Lain
In the jungle.

Ben Lambert
Yeah, in the jungle. And if we do that, though, what would be your favorite PepsiCo snack drink or, brand that you'd want, want us to bring. And, and we're going to caveat this ahead of time that just because it's your favorite doesn't mean that all of the others aren't equally amazing.

Zach Lain
Sure. Thank you.

Ben Lambert
But if you were to choose one to be on a desert island or on a hike with, what would it be?

Zach Lain
Oh, this is easy. This is it. I'm going to cheat a little bit. There's actually a combo of two products, but it's they, they're, they're they're made for each other. It's definitely Sabra hummus which a lot of people don't know.

We own Stacy's. In Stacy's pita chips, specifically the roasted red pepper, Sabra hummus with the extra crispy Stacy's. It's a great pairing because, of course, it tastes good, but it hits specifically on the sound of the crunch. Like going into the creamy hummus in a way that other snack combos don’t. I’ve clearly given this a lot of thought.

So, yeah. That is, then that's the desert island, snack. That's, that's the 2 a.m. snack. Hell, that's the six am snack. That's the 24/7 snack.

Ben Lambert
Okay, so so within that with a roasted red pepper flavor, are you scooping around the roasted red pepper to save that for last. Or are you going full scoop across to make sure that you get roasted red pepper in every bite

Zach Lain
It's across.

Ben Lambert
Okay.

Zach Lain
I find the part that's too weird to me. That's the one I don't want to strategize. I don't want to do. I do want to strategize my snacking.

Ben Lambert
Okay.

Zach Lain
But yeah, but I have seen people do chaotic things like yes, or by looking at it.

Ben Lambert
Yeah, it's, you know, it's it's like the, you know, we won't talk about some of the PepsiCo competitor snack foods, but, you know, the different ways of eating cookies or

Zach Lain
Oh sure.
Ben Lambert
Can you go through a full tub in a sitting?

Zach Lain
Yeah. It's healthy for you, it's chickpeas.

Ben Lambert
Well, and and you know, after you're, you know, swimming, you know, you, you've got to refuel the have a great.

Zach Lain
Yeah. You have a hell of an appetite after swimming. So yeah

Ben Lambert
Amazing, Zach, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on this amazing episode of Breaking Through the Mayhem. I cannot wait to see what is in store for data partnerships and measurement in the future. And thank you again for joining us.

Zach Lain
Awesome. Thanks so much. Appreciate it.