Episode 7 – Scott Cunningham from the IAB Tech Lab

Welcome to Episode 7 of the Breaking Through the Mayhem podcast, where we explore marketing and advertising in a time of constantly shifting risk and opportunity.

Brought to you by Sightly, our goal is to share the insights of industry leaders from brands, agencies, publishers, and partners as they discuss the challenges and possibilities emerging from the ever-shifting media landscape, such as real-time marketing, brand safety and purpose, influencers, cancel culture, data privacy, technology and more.

Today's guest is Scott Cunningham.

Scott has a long history of implementing ad technology policies that have helped major organizations reach new heights with their ad programs. He got his start in the journalism industry, implementing the first online banner ads at the University of Wisconsin-Madison’s independent newspaper, The Badger Herald, and serving as Manager of Multimedia Technologies for nearly 10 years at USA Today, where he developed rich media technologies and video to enhance the publication’s stories and provide more opportunities for advertising for USATODAY.com, as well as across Gannett broadcasting and newspaper sites. He then joined ManiaTV as Vice President of Publishing and Software Development, where he led tool-development and content-publishing teams for the broadband video distribution network and launched five video ad networks.

From there, he proceeded to head the software/web development, operations, and analytics teams at The Denver Post as Vice President of Operations and Solutions; lead engineering and operations for more than 800 nationwide news and niche websites and mobile products at Digital First Media as Vice President of Technology and Platforms; and handled product and design for programmatic and native advertising solutions at Federated Media Publishing as Senior Vice President of Product. He is a graduate of the University of Wisconsin-Madison.

In the episode, which was recorded live at the Brand Safety Summit NY on November 3, 2022, Scott discusses:

• How he got his start in advertising
• How brands can be authentic and consistent in today's wild ad market
• Ad fraud on desktop vs CTV
• Some of the best groups to be a part of in the advertising industry

The Breaking Through the Mayhem podcast - Episode 07

Host:  Adam Katz, Chief Revenue Officer & GM, Sightly
Guest: Scott Cunningham, Technology, Publishing, Advertising Executive and Consultant. Founder IAB Tech Lab.
Recorded live at the Brand Safety Summit NY, November 3, 2022
 

Adam Katz

Welcome back to Sightly’s Breaking Through the Mayhem podcast, talking about marketing in a time of constantly shifting risk and opportunity. We're very, very lucky to welcome Scott Cunningham today. Scott, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and your background.

Scott Cunningham 

Adam, this is great. So a lot of people know me as the founder of the IAB Tech Lab. And during those years, we also set up TAG, the Trustworthy Accountability Group. Prior to that, I've spent a number of years in news information in USA Today and had a media news group interactive. And these days, the last four or five years I've been independent, taking on a lot of different clients’ measurement, but also causes, a lot of sustainable journalism initiatives, as you can imagine, last couple of years with COVID.

Adam Katz

Interesting. And in terms of like one of the things I've been talking a lot about on this podcast is, I don't think any one of us thought we were going to do this when we first got into any of this. So, how did you get started in this industry and what keeps you excited about it?

Scott Cunningham 

So here's a great story. I launched the BadgerHerald.com back in the nineties, one of the first newspapers when I was in college in Wisconsin. And the first banner ad was a really complicated sale. I needed a host for our website, and I gave the university bookstore Unix administrator a free banner ad and a case of beer, and therefore.

Adam Katz

Natty lights back then or what?

Scott Cunningham 

No, it was Berghoff, Wisconsin's finest, out of Monroe, Wisconsin.

Adam Katz

With some curd on it?

Scott Cunningham 

Well, it was dark. It was a dark brew. So, you know, those are complicated banner negotiations back in the day, but I've always kind of gravitated around news publishing for the first 15 years of my career, 12, 15 years. I ended up in the ads world in part because I had a lot of experience around publishing and advertising transactions, a lot of creative solutions around advertising.

Did I expect to make it a career around the supply chain of advertising? I did not. I did not. But here's the thing, I love complicated issues. I love the solution throughout complicated issues and the supply chain for advertising is very complicated.

Adam Katz

I would agree with that. If you were to give, you know, the guests a little bit of a knowledge around supply chain, what would be the most easily digestible human way of describing a supply chain?

Scott Cunningham 

I would say to describe the supply chain the only word I come back to is complicated. The best way to think about how to navigate it is know your partners. I can't stress enough how many times I work with companies, whether it's a marketer that I'm working with as a client and addressable identity or a publisher or any intermediary, and how often they don't know who their partners are on any of their digital products, on their pages, you name it.

And that actually, to me, it comes back to just due diligence around those things. So that's how I describe how best to manage the supply chain on that part.

Adam Katz

And what are you most excited about in the industry right now?

Scott Cunningham 

Oh, that's a good one. For me because of the sustainable journalism work that I've been doing, I'm excited about how journalism publishers have an opportunity with identity addressability, in some cases, regulatory compliance, being able to take back a little bit of control of what's going on in their network.

Adam Katz

Very cool.

Scott Cunningham

For me, that's actually pretty important.

Adam Katz

And in terms of like some of the topics we like to talk about on this podcast, what are your thought process on how brands can establish their perception in market and be authentic and consistent in the ever changing world where I know it's a little different than your typical use case, but what's your take on how that works?

Scott Cunningham 

So let me, I'll describe what I'm working on it with NewsPassId for local news in the US. We have newspapers, local television all across the country, aggregated in an ad network. And I can't tell you how pervasive our ability to target multicultural ZIP codes is with publications. And so with the brand who wants to really, really reach diverse audiences, you have to go to those audiences, not just live digitally, but live physically.

And so within this ad network I've put together for local news, one of the elements here, and I present it to a number of different marketers in the last couple of days is that you can reach these diverse audiences that you're seeking, but you have to think of it in terms of the easy button. A little bit becomes a little bit harder when you're talking about local media and you know, if they can go just that extra step, they're able to actually reach those diverse, whether it's socioeconomic diversity, racial diversity, you name it, the reach that we have, I would argue, is a little bit unique and unparalleled compared to some of the larger platforms.

And that's what my message to brand marketers is.

Adam Katz

And do you think the problem is, with that, is that people lean in with cash and then they can't actually deliver on it, and it's kind of setting back the supply chain problem that's actually going on.

Scott Cunningham 

As far as the buyer side leaning cash. You know, it's interesting. I do think that clearly there is probably some spend that occurs at the end of a month. You know, whoever your buyer is or some spend that says, hey, look, we just got to shove this thing out the door and therefore we're funding some things that we shouldn't be funding, OK?

And I obviously have been, from a supply chain controls perspective, I'm exceptionally concerned about how much money is still going to areas that are just dark we don't know. We can't ET and the verification signals don't fall on hold. And that actually happens a lot. So a lot of my other side of my work here is malvertising and malware and ad fraud and piracy.

And I still see a lot of brand dollars going into areas that it shouldn't be going. However, there are solutions for these things and so we're working through these solutions. But I still think that there's still a long way to go.

Adam Katz

Interesting. And in terms of, you don’t have to name partners or tools. What are some of the data sources that are coming out that you like in the industry right now?

Scott Cunningham 

Well, I'll tell you one thing. Here's what I know about the difference between like ad fraud on desktop versus CTV versus in app. Everyone talks about how some cases ad fraud on CTV is relatively low and maybe desktop is a little bit higher. Well, that could be an occurrence of the fact that we are more mature in measurement of desktop.

So those numbers on desktop might be more accurate. The numbers that I'm hearing floated around working with verification vendors is we only really probably understand 25% of what's going on in CTV from the buy side of things because of how complicated sometimes CTV is. That comes back to know your partner. And I do think that we have a lot of room for improvement around these types of distribution channels and emerging areas like CTV.

Adam Katz

Very interesting. And in terms of like places that you think are great groups to be a part of, what are some of the groups you like to be in that are helping you learn, coach, I know you've been doing a lot of work this week here at Brand Safety week.

Scott Cunningham

I have.

Adam Katz

So what's been some of that?

Scott Cunningham 

I mean obviously coming out and establishing the IAB Tech Lab and the work that Tony Katsur and that team still does there is just phenomenal. I love how they've grown the tech lab you know, since its inception. You know, obviously engaging from a technical perspective there for anybody in the supply chain is very helpful. I will say that I've done a lot of work for the Trustworthy Accountability group and the programs there continue to mature and mature and mature to the point where they're including folks outside of our industry.

And I don't think people really appreciate that from the outside, looking in to the advertising industry, the infosec security, cybersecurity industry, they look at us is like this little island, they don't necessarily want to get involved in because it's kind of a Wild West. The reality is we do have better structures than most people I think appreciate and get engaged in.

So Tag, Trustworthy Accountability Group is one. I presented this week to the Global Alliance for Responsible Media if you're out in the buy side, they're having strong conversations around disinformation versus real information. I'm obviously representing news publishers on the real information side, but I do think that they're creating just a crap ton of awareness towards misinformation.

Adam Katz

I agree.

Scott Cunningham 

And good information at the same time and how to go about executing their campaigns and buys with journalism.

Adam Katz

In your personal life, how do you make your own decisions now on buying? What's typically what drives you? Is it influencers? Is it what other people tell you? Is it just Scott's brain? How do you make your buying decisions today?

Scott Cunningham 

So I inherently, maybe this is the entrepreneur in me. I'm a little bit of a oh, I don't know, a conspiracy theorist and have a little bit of agitation with me. So I tend to take things with a very conservative approach. So when I'm advising marketer clients when it comes to identity address ability of their campaigns,

I always take a much more conservative approach and say let's just be careful and validate the supply path by which we are actually executing things on, that the identity relationships is privacy friendly. Privacy compliance is still a new thing, especially with California coming out with the new laws and CPRA. But when I advise my marketer clients and I advise the holding companies out there and the brand and the agencies, I just tend to take a very conservative approach without scale as the equation. It's a controls thing for me more than anything. That's how I think about buying.

Adam Katz

Gotcha. But what about you personally? How does Scott make his own buying decisions?

Scott Cunningham 

Oh, when I'm 

Adam Katz

When your doing it. You have kids, you got your family. =

Scott Cunningham

That's true.

Adam Katz

How are you typically thinking about making your decisions today?

Scott Cunningham 

You know, I will say that my kids tend to get what they need, but they earn their own money -

Adam Katz

Okay. 

Scott Cunningham 

- through painting or whatever if they want to go to the mall and stuff. What I pay for, for me is experiences for them, right? I'm going to the World Cup. I'm going to the World Cup, Women's World Cup next year, the men’s World Cup this year.

So one of the buying decisions I make is obviously, surrounded by my family, is largely based on the experiences that we can provide them versus just stuff.

Adam Katz

So you're big on certain moments that will be remembered forever. 

Scott Cunningham

Exactly.

Adam Katz

And are most of those centered around what sports, around events, around music, around, and I know you just went through a pretty catastrophic moment in Denver with the fire. 

Scott Cunningham

Yeah.

Adam Katz

So like how do you typically think about big moments and how those play into your life?

Scott Cunningham 

So I've always done I think I've always done the big moment stuff with our family pretty well. We went to the Women's World Cup in 2019 but yeah I mean I live right there in Boulder County and then the fires came through it was damn close. It was damn close to like burning everything. And frankly, we lost a lot even when we were robbed after, you know, we were evacuated so we lost a lot of personal things.

However, there's two boxes in my home and I didn't evacuate with those. My wife got really pissed off at me about it. But there's two boxes -

Adam Katz

But it worked out.

Scott Cunningham

Yeah, but it worked out. But like the clay pottery shit, the paintings the kids made. And if you think about it, all the just the stuff and the crap that you own, it's really that stuff, the photos and the little artwork, things that matters.

Everything else, the furniture, the TVs, computers, except for me, the hard drive with some financials, but I have that with me. But everything else is just stuff. And I'm fortunate of having the war at journalism cap in my career. So I've covered Katrina. I was with FEMA. I've seen destruction firsthand. And I've, you know, had to come close to my own home.

And we had a lot of damage ourselves. But at the end of the day, there are just a few things there that really matter. Everything else for me is just stuff that can be replaced.

Adam Katz

And back to more of the work topic outside of yourself, last question I would think about is how would you advise companies, because I know you do this all the time right, how would you advise companies that don't have the financial resources to get approved by all these different vendors that they need to look good to, to actually build a structure that would get approved when they get to that financial ability?

Scott Cunningham 

So are you talking about when it comes to I need this solution, I'm not going to ever get it through procurement or anything like that internally.

Adam Katz

I'm talking about also like the ability for MRC to accredit you, things like this that are, are out there. They're, I mean, they're, they're so expensive, right? 

Scott Cunningham

So, yeah. 

Adam Katz

Companies today, there are starving for cash. You're not going to just go out there and get themselves approved by everything, right? But they want to, they want to be in a position when they, when they're looking to do that what would you recommend companies do today? Because I know that’s a big piece of your business.

Scott Cunningham 

It is, Cunningham Tech, we do work with a lot of companies who are looking at compliance. Right. And I've got one client I'm happy to announce or say is iSpot because they're listed as an MRC in process and I'm working through their accreditation and that's fantastic. I, I've had other companies approach me and say the long term outlook on our accreditation path or our financial capability is not there.

There are alternatives depending on where you sit in the supply chain, tag, Ivy Tech Lab, different certifications. There are many ways you can creatively go about having third party validation against your solution, your process and your compliance to certain measurement and or ad delivery functions. MRC is not the only one.

Adam Katz

So do you recommend companies having an internal person who does this as an expert or using consultancies at this point? I know it's a huge conversation for companies right now.

Scott Cunningham 

So here's what happens. Somebody will hire me and compliance across the board is somewhat of a, it's become increasingly difficult for companies and that's not a bad thing. You know, you want that friction and it shows and it demonstrates as a private sector company that you're in good standing. I do recommend, depending on the size of the company, that at some point your scale, your reach in the market ahead of trust that establishes the ability to navigate the certifications to navigate and work with clients.

I mean look at the global, look at the agency holding companies they all have brand safety teams. You've probably, they're all here. Right. And obviously their teams are really symbolic of how much is required of them as buyers with marketer dollars. I think every company out there needs to have a, air quote, compliance officer, even if it's somebody from the product team who represents that company within the working groups and compliance structures for TAG, the IAB, the MRC.

But again, depending on the size of the company, is really going to depend on the investment you do make. And because frankly, your product portfolio becomes more complicated as well. Right.

Adam Katz

Very, very interesting. Well, thank you, Scott, for joining us today. A lot of fun. You know, obviously I can talk to you any time. So - 

Scott Cunningham 

Yeah we could probably gab forever man.

Adam Katz

- We'll probably be here. We'll probably come back again, the two of us and have another conversation. Thank you for joining me today on Breaking Through The Mayhem.

Scott Cunningham 

Absolutely. Cool. Thanks, Adam.