Empowering AdTech's Future: Angelina Eng on Bias, Data, and Career Development

Empowering AdTech’s Future: Angelina Eng on Bias, Data, and Career Development

Angelina unravels AdTech: Insights for strategists. Dive into her wisdom. Listen & lead.

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Dive into an episode like no other, tailored explicitly for the discerning AdTech professional and media strategists who thrive on being at the cutting edge. In this unconventional discussion, Adam Katz, CEO of Sightly, and Angelina Eng, VP of Measurement, Addressability & Data Center at IAB, unpack the complexities and nuances of navigating the advertising landscape in an era of unprecedented change. With a focus on the post-cookie world, addressing bias in AI, and the evolution of media buying strategies, this episode is a goldmine of insights for those who are not just participating in the industry but are shaping its future.

This is not your ordinary industry talk; it's an invitation to challenge the norms, to look beyond traditional metrics, and to understand the deeper implications of technological advancements and regulatory shifts on your strategies and careers. Whether you're crafting media plans, decoding data privacy implications, or exploring the frontiers of programmatic advertising, you’ll discover actionable insights that can redefine your approach to digital advertising.

Prepare to be inspired by strategies that break the mold, to elevate your thinking, and to equip yourself with the knowledge to lead in the AdTech space. If you're committed to staying ahead in this fast-paced industry, making informed decisions, and driving your campaigns with innovation and foresight, this episode is your essential listen. Gear up to transform your perspective and strategies in AdTech and media buying — tune in now and take the leap from being an industry participant to an industry leader.

GuestAngelina Eng

IAB

The Breaking Through the Mayhem podcast - Episode 16

Empowering AdTech's Future: Angelina Eng on Bias, Data, and Career Development

Host: Adam Katz, CEO at Sightly
Guest: Angelina Eng, VP Measurement, Addressability & Data Center at IAB
Recorded on April 5th 2024

TRANSCRIPT

Adam Katz
What's up, guys? Welcome to Sightly’s Breaking Through the Mayhem podcast. This is Adam here, the CEO of Sightly, and I'm back on the mic to host another episode today, which is episode 16. It's crazy how time has flown since we started. Joining me today is the great Angelina Eng, the VP of Measurement, Addressability and Data Center over at IAB.

That's a long title. How did that happen? Why so many different buckets in your title?

Angelina Eng
Well, originally when I started it was called the Programmatic and Data Center, and with all the things that are changing. First of all, thank you for having me. (Of course.) Adam, always a pleasure. And I'm really excited about our conversation. But going back. So originally when I first started at IAB, which was in 2020, 2 weeks before the pandemic, and the city shut down, by the way.

Adam Katz
That make you friends really quickly at the company?

Angelina Eng
I knew I knew a couple of people already, so it was cool.

Adam Katz
Were people in your office predicting that the world was going to shut down? Or they thought it was a –

Angelina Eng
Because I was there? No. We heard about all the things that were happening in China and, you know, what was going on and I think it was a matter of time that we realized it was going to happen. But, hey, I was transitioning away from Morgan Stanley at the time. And this opportunity came along at IAB.

And it just so happened to be right after Google announced that they were going to deprecate the cookie. So it was the perfect timing for me to go to the IAB. And we, we the group that I was in, was programmatic and data center and with all the things that were going on, I think the the title of our group kind of put us in to like a pigeonhole on just focusing on programmatic, but because there were so many things going on when it came to measurement and addressability and the quality of data.

I wanted something that kind of encompassed a name that really showcased the work that our center would be focused on. And so I'll and plus it gave us the acronym MAD. So MAD, So the Mad Center and I thought that was cute.

Adam Katz
The Mad Center is great for you. I love that. And what have been your favorite accomplishments so far over at the IAB?

Angelina Eng
There's been a lot of things. There is. There's obviously the events that we hold and the topics that we discuss. I think we've really uped our game in the last couple of years around putting together programs and events that really are top of mind are things that our members are most interested in and learning about and then helping them navigate it so that either any of our events or webinars.

But when it comes to actual standards themselves, I would say the one we did on A.I. and Bias in marketing, how to minimize bias in marketing, that was written about two and a half years ago.

Adam Katz
Wow. You guys were ahead of the curve on that one.

Angelina Eng
Yeah. And and and I didn't know anything about A.I. at the time. Right? So I'm sitting in a room with like Broadsign, Iponweb and Loeb and Loeb, and IBM, and I'm talking to, like, people that are like, in it and know it. And I'm just kind of like, okay, like how are we going to write this?

Write this document, it came out to be like 60 pages of really good thought provoking recommendations of navigating companies, not only engineers and developers, but also business owners. So end users, media planners, buyers, sales team. Because when it comes to AI, it's everyone has a role. Everyone in an organization has a responsibility in terms of the data that they're going to use and the partners that they're going to use that uses A.I..

And so this walks through like how do you actually look at your data, minimize bias, which is which in app, in the paper we talk about, you're not going to be able to eliminate bias whatsoever. Right. So there is going to be an element of bias due to maybe the data that you're using, the lack of data that you don't have and who represents, but also the people that are coding it and is creating it.

So there's always going to be some level of bias. And we have a whole checklist.

Adam Katz
But don't you believe that like anything in life will end up having some level of bias? Because if you're if you're trying to create an outcome, you're going to drive towards what creates that. You're going to have different bias and different things. So I think it's a really tough topic. I think I think what's most important in that topic, and I think you and I would agree on that, is like simplifying it, right?

Make it easier for people to understand what they're actually using it for, what they're doing for it, and then how they're going to actually use it. I think that's like the key next phase of this topic. And one of the things that I find very, very interesting about you obviously weaving into your your path. I want our audience to learn a little bit more about you because I know how special you are.

And I want them to know the in terms of yourself, like you've had a lot of like we're talking a lot in today's world about your own brand, right? I think a lot of people are are leaning into their own brand more than ever before. And I think you've done that in a big way. But it's interesting that your brand has been about helping others.

So how did how did that start for you? Why, why, why helping others? How did you create this thought process around helping people, finding jobs in this tough market today? And where did that passion come from and who kind of created that for you and where did you jump into that?

Angelina Eng
Tough question. So throughout my career, I would say that my, you know, I've been lucky to have worked with some great people and to have people work for me. And I it realized maybe, you know, especially when I started managing other people, how important it was to nurture individuals in terms of their career path, their confidence and have and letting them realize their value and and figure out different paths of where they can go in their career.

Right. So and I think especially when it came to running ad operations over and over at Dentsu originally I was hired at Kara or one of your guys Walt Cheruk, who now works, who works for you. But I had worked with him when I was at Modum Media as a media director, and then when Modem was purchased by Digitas, they took half the company to Digitas and sold the other half and moved the other half to Publicis.

Right. So and realized that when as I was growing this ad operations team, a lot of them are what I'll, you know not the right label but introverts. Right. So they're the people that are they don't typically on the front line get recognition for the work that they do. They're considered people in the back room, you know at their keyboard issuing out tags and so it was really important for me to nurture that group and and say like, you guys are not just tag creators, but you are strategic thinkers and you need to understand how digital advertising works in order to do your job better.

So as I was growing that team, I had initially two people that reported to me. We grew that to 45 and that became, you know, I had people in that I be supporting LatAm, Europe and now, you know, different, different countries and all that stuff. China and and I, I felt like a mama bear. Right. Very proud of.

Adam Katz
I love that. I love that, “mama bear.”

Angelina Eng
I them. Although I do refer to my team as minions after the minion movie came out and they hated that. They hated that. But I was like, You're my minions.

Adam Katz
And I could see. I could see people loving being called that. Mama Bear and minions. That's the theme. I love that.

Angelina Eng
So, you know, and a lot of them were like, okay, so I'm doing Ad Ops. I've been doing it for ten years, like are there... And I said, You know, hey, you can take this job and now go into project management, product lead, programmatic, social data engineering, data architect, whatever. And so that's where that kind of like nurturing of giving people advice, looking at their resumé, helping them land their next job.

And so when when after the pandemic and this was about like last year when we started seeing all these layoffs and I had had so many people contact me because they now realize I was that at IAB and I, you know, I had this great purview of what's happening in the marketplace. I have all these different connection.

Adam Katz
So they were curious where they thought they could go next and what's the right path is that –

Angelina Eng
Yeah, so what are the new trends, What are the different types of companies I should be looking at? And then I noticed like, Hey, I had this one girl friend who actually worked for me and I was like, You only have like a thousand people on your LinkedIn. You need to grow that network, right? Create your own brand.

And she doesn't know this, but the newsletter was really intended for her at some point, right? Because she she didn't take any of my advice. So I was like, you know what? If you're not going to take my advice, I will let everyone else take my advice. So this is where I was like, You need to follow up and network with people, expand your knowledge, listen to these podcasts, update your LinkedIn, Don't do the you know, congratulations on your new job or any of that.

Right. Like that, that that kind of stuff is so, you know, artificial in my eyes. Right. But if you're going to build the brand, you know, bring your point of view to your network, share stories. And so that's where it came about and why I created the newsletter.

Adam Katz
And and one of my reasons that I ended up asking you to join the podcast, you don't know this, but so I'll tell you now, was I saw one of your posts go pretty much viral where you don't like when people call you Angela and if you go look back at your linkedin did over the last couple months, I think you got like I don't want to exaggerate like thousands of likes on that in comments where everything else that you posted you post is is in like a minimum place.

So, do you realize that? Like think about so so how did you start getting to a place where you are like, you know what I'm going to put out there? Like some of my my thoughts? I'm going to be more authentic with people about how I feel because obviously, I know you've always been authentic, but like, what's your message to people to, like, be comfortable doing that?

Because clearly the world wants to hear not only funny things from people, but really what's going on in their world. You know, so comment a little on that for me.

Angelina Eng
I mean, I think, you know, as you mentioned, I do a lot of posts about the industry and it's so and those are fun. Those are fun to do. But I also think it's important that people know that I'm approachable and that I'm a real person and that, you know, I you know, not to pat myself on the back because it's not about that.

It's not about celebrity, celebrity and and all that stuff.

Adam Katz
Do you pay attention to how many likes you get?

Angelina Eng
I pay attention to the number of followers that I get. Okay. But but the.

Adam Katz
Did you get your biggest boost after that post of all time or what was the turning point?

Angelina Eng
Okay, so funny funny story. And my compadre, Geoffrey Boost is is the driver of that. So when I first started, right when I was at IAB, when when Geoffrey Boost came to IAB and he was like, I'm going to get to 10,000.

And so and I didn't pay any mind to it. And so and so and he was doing all these posts and he's growing his network. And then all of a sudden he hit 10,000. I was like, okay.

Adam Katz
I'm getting competitive now.

Angelina Eng
I‘m getting competitive. And so my maiden name is KWA**

Adam Katz
You know I knew where that was what was going on.

Angelina Eng
So there's a there's a little up. So my maiden name is quak and so my husband's like thats so quakish, you know, my siblings and I are very competitive and the but but.

Adam Katz
What’s the most competitive thing you do that you're not good at?

Angelina Eng
I'm good at everything. No, no, no. What am I?

Adam Katz
Do you struggle to do things you're not good at because you're so competitive?

Angelina Eng
So I'm good at handball, but I'm not great at handball. And I hate losing.

Adam Katz
But you'll still get out there and play it.

Angelina Eng
Absolutely. I used to play in high school all the time out. And now if anyone from Queens in Woodhaven at a park called the Victory Field Course. And so that that was my place. And so for four years in high school, it would be like 20 of us at the park every day.

And I got good. But I do have a hole in my hand every once in a while. So where the ball just decides to go through my hand.

Adam Katz
Oh, because you missed, because you swung and missed.

Angelina Eng
I swing and miss a lot.

Adam Katz
So. So thinking about that. How many how many people do you think you've helped get a job at this point? Like if you had to put a number on it in the last few years, what what do you what do you think you've done?

Angelina Eng
I've had ten people tell me that they got a job directly from the newsletter.

Adam Katz
Wow.

Angelina Eng
Ten people. However, I get I have definitely at least a hundred people that have approached me and said that they really appreciate, at least a 100, the content that I provide. So there's things like how to negotiate a contract or an exit contract or a and you know, when you get a new job, how to optimize your LinkedIn, how to conduct yourself in an interview.

So there's a bunch of stuff there. And then a lot of people saying that, hey, I didn't even know about all these things that IAB is doing and your newsletter features some of that. That's so interesting. Or, thanks for posting a lot of the events. I didn't realize that there were a bunch of other events that were happening in the industry, so I think there's a little bit of something for everyone.

So initially my intention was for people that were in the job market, but then I realized that, hey, I should expand this to help people that are maybe possibly looking for a career advancement or just a boost in confidence around what they do. And so I kind of brought which is why it's called career gazette and not a job gazette.

Adam Katz
I love that. And you've put something up about me before, so I thank you for that. And you know, you do a really great job of promoting the people of our industry. So thank you. Shifting gears a little bit. So obviously, you care a lot about being authentic, right? That's what it sounds like. And helping people move faster to help themselves in today's world.

What would be your advice to big brands now that are trying to do that? Like you're you're an individual brand who's now trying to build yourself. How do you think big brands could stand out today? How do you think they can actually make an impact on their consumers when every consumer today seems to be thinking that they're the individual that every brand is speaking to?

So what's kind of your thought on how to move with today's information? Because clearly you made that moves. How would you recommend big brands do it today?

Angelina Eng
I think big things for me, I think there is more of an internal transition that a lot of brands need to make. It's been difficult for a lot of companies when it comes to attracting talent and balancing between efficiency and quality. Right? We talk about this in media planning of buying, right? But but at the same time, I feel like brands don't actually take that same concept and focus in on their internal processes, their internal talents.

Right? They so they want efficient quality when it comes to media planning and buying, they want to be in the right places. They want to target the right people with the right message, but do it in an efficient and effective way. But then you look at them internally and they don't have that same value and why I say that is and I talked about this in the past in a couple of other podcast, but it's, you know, when it comes to procurement, it's all about how do you know, how do you get the most out of your agency or how do you get the most out of your even internal team?

How do you become lean and mean? And unfortunately, this industry is not a fan of lean and mean, right? And hiring people who have experience, who have gone through different stages in our industry from back in 2000, 1995 when the Internet was just booming and we were challenged with how to sell through digital as part of the media buy.

And then we had the, you know, programmatic and then in the booming of social and then programmatic, how do you evolve and change the way that you approach media planning? You need people who have experience, right, not only within those channels, but also kind of like from a broader holistic standpoint and when it if you staff your teams to be very junior level focused, you're not going to get strategic, you're not going to have people that are going to be able to brainstorm and work collaboratively with others in a way where they can they can move forward.

And so that's been the struggle that I have with procurement. I talked about it again a few times in the past with others, but I feel like this I just saw an article about this where, you know, I'll need lower CPM rates and more like, well, agencies are struggling and there's a lot of people who are senior out there who are great, would be great to work at a brand would be great to work at an agency, but clients don't pay for.

Adam Katz
So how do you fix that? What's what's the solution? If you were, you could just have obviously it's a long question, but what would be your solution? And obviously you're saying expertise, experience, creativity and paying for it. But in a in a world that cash is more expensive, there is the need to balance that. It's harder to raise capital than it's been in the past.

And the reality is, is that a lot of the the word junior I don't want to say younger, but a lot of the junior generation is able to come in today and feel like they can run a company from the start. Right? So how do you foster both those sides? Right. And I think a lot of that has to do with mentorship and has to do with the type of things that you talk about, which is how can you get people as quick as possible to be able to navigate this landscape even if they didn't have all that experience?

Right? So I think it's about for me, it's about finding eager people, right. With that can do attitude and with grit. Right. And ultimately you'll find those people rise above. But what's how would how would you fix it? What's what's your what's your game plan if you could just take it all and fix it? What are you doing?

Angelina Eng
I don't know. All I know is that you have to find the right people that can work with others in a very collaborative way. And someone who has experience in troubleshooting and learning. Right. I'm what I'm very proud of in my career is that I've been able to be a specialist and be a general. Right. And and sometimes the reverse.

And let me explain that right Again, I talk about this a lot is, you know, when I when I ran an operations for our for Dentsu and when Walt hired me, he was like, okay, I need you to run ad operations. Like, I don't know how to traffic, right ?He goes, but you know media plans and you know what you want and you know how things should be set up, right?

And I was like, Yeah, but I don't know how to go into DoubleClick and traffic a tag. And he's like, and then learn and learn. So for the first two months of when I, when I started at Dentsu at that time, Kara, I actually took the time and within the platform trafficking campaigns alongside my team. Right. And you need people who are able to get their hands dirty, but also are able to take a step back and talk to C-level executives and talk about business strategy.

But what I find is, like, companies need to nurture that, right? If it wasn't for Walt nurturing me to do that, I don't think I would have been as successful in being able to manage an ad ops team if I didn't have that encouragement.

Adam Katz
But I think we're talking about different challenges right? Now we're talking leadership and encouragement versus experience. And I think the challenge going forward, this is kind of what I'm thinking about with you, right, is how do you balance that right it because ultimately that balance is what every company is trying to create today. I don't know that it's just lean and mean.

I think it's a balance that they're trying to create at times. But I think the challenges now, with AI right, going back to some of those topics that are out there? You know, people are sometimes talk about AI replacing jobs. And I think back to your example, you're giving at Dentsu, I don't think it's about replacing.

I think it's about utilizing correctly –

Angelina Eng
Absolutely.

Adam Katz
– and being responsible. So that's really what we're talking about in that topic. Like for me, it's like, okay, how do you actually foster people to get stronger and better with the tools that are around them? But what you were giving was opportunity. And I think a lot of the younger generations looking for just an opportunity right out, you know?

So it's like it's kind of a combination of things, I think mentorship, opportunity, but also there's a scrounging of roles. So how do we balance That is what we're thinking through. And I think personally what you're doing in your career gazette is that is doing that. And I think the what you're doing at the IAB, you guys are always thinking about doing that.

How do you balance the standards with reality? Yeah, right. And with your personality, it's the perfect person to think about that. Right, cause you're looking at relationships always. You're looking at how to bring people together. You're looking at how to elevate each other. Right? So I think that's the key mission that will help a lot of this generation and people going forward.

Angelina Eng
But can I answer a question about brands, though

Adam Katz
Of course.

Angelina Eng
Or even at an agency or at a public, but regardless of what type of that is, that has to be fostered. That culture has to be fostered by the organization. Right. One of my most popular posts was also like where I said, if a company is toxic, there's no there's no fixing it unless it comes from the top down. Right?

Adam Katz
I would agree with that.

Angelina Eng
And it's not the bottom up. It's the top down. So if a company fosters that, hey, I'm going to hire a bunch of smart people who has proven and I'm going to give them the opportunity to work together, but at the same time not tell them that they have to stay within their swim lane and that they need to go out there and go to events, network with others, be part of a trade association, doesn't have to be IAB, but be part of a trade association, go out and meet publishers, meet other ad tech companies.

That's what needs to happen. And I feel that everyone is so and I'm not talking about like, okay, that's 50% of their time that they need to do that now, right? You only need a few hours, a couple in a month to do that. Right.

Adam Katz
How do companies balance the people building brands today versus loyalty to companies? What's kind of your your take on that? You've had a long run everywhere. Right? So you have a proven thought process there. So obviously the IAB is going to support that growth, right? How do companies do that in a world where people move around a lot? And also my belief personally is that I love to see longevity.

Angelina Eng
Yep.

Adam Katz
Right. Because it shows that you can work with others for an extended period of time, whereas others look at it as complacency. So how do you kind of look at that balance?

Angelina Eng
People don't quit jobs, they quit people, they quit because of their manager.

Adam Katz
People around them.

Angelina Eng
Yeah. And so I you know, every manager that I've had, most of the managers, not all most of the managers that I have, I have fostered a relationship with them. And people can say, well, you know, we should delineate between like there being managers, like business.

Adam Katz
And friends.

Angelina Eng
Vs. friends, right? I say why not both?

Adam Katz
I love that.

Angelina Eng
I feel that if they're able that there you can be more candid with each other about each other's faults and each other's strengths.

Adam Katz
Because, you know, it's coming from a place of of wanting to help versus a place of of battling. It's such a it's crazy you say that because, you know, my my path has been moving up within one company. So I've always struggled with the friendship management mentorship fit right. And where we stand together is we're both very open people.

So yeah, you have to you got to know when to hold them, when to fold them, I guess in that sense. But ultimately I couldn't agree with that more. Thank you. Thank you for telling everyone that, you know, and I, I think that speaks well to the way brands need to think. Right. If you're speaking to your audience and you're doing it through compassion, friendship, leadership and wanting to bring them on that journey, think you're going to create more loyal customers just as equally as you would do that within a company.

So, I mean, it's interesting.

Angelina Eng
Not only that, but with your partners, right? So a brand with an agency, An agency with a publisher, Right. A publisher with an SSP, Right.

Adam Katz
So do you do you wish you could go back to like 2000 in the industry or are you actually enjoying where it is? You know, like you've been in it for a long time? Is are you a I'm closer to wanting out of it in your head or closer to loving it? Like, I think I think I kind of hear a conflicted mindset today.

Angelina Eng
Oh totally, conflicted and totally conflicted. I miss the 1998 2000 days when we were, you know, I there was no complaints about working late. Everyone enjoyed working late. Everyone enjoyed working.

Adam Katz
I was about to go to Midwood High School at that point.

Angelina Eng
In Brooklyn, right. So my cousin went there. I think we talked about this. My cousin went to Midwood, but all my cousins went Midwood and. But where was I go with this? but.

Adam Katz
These people wanted to stay late and work hard because they enjoyed being around each other.

Angelina Eng
Yeah. And it was fun. And there was this sense of camaraderie. There was a sense.

Adam Katz
Of against the world.

Angelina Eng
As against the world. Exactly. It was. It was very much like the digital team.

Adam Katz
It was a team. It was a team looking to win a championship together.

Angelina Eng
We were scrappy, We were young. It was fun. I was able to stay up later and more energy right when it I would say I, I loved my experience on the agency side. I loved the accounts that I worked on, the people that I met, the people I work with, the people who might have helped to mentor. I would be one of those people that would be the problem solver, right?

So and I could see myself still at an agency now, I don't know. And I think I would would have fun. I would would still have fun But I do love the work that I'm doing at IAB because of this this concept of helping people and so -

Adam Katz
But you get to meet so many people too right? Like the word helping and meeting and growing. Couldn't it be, you couldn't be in more of a center.That I don't think we thought we were going to go down a whole, whole life journey and talking about life and thinking. So we'll kind of wrap up here with the with, you know, where do you see the industry going?

How would you advise people on picking the right partners and people to work with? And, you know, where does this end for you? Where is the end game for you? Personally?

Angelina Eng
I would like to see more collaboration and network ing of companies where there is a hunger for learning and an open mindset to change. We're entering an era where things are going to be very different, right? And with the cookies going away with privacy regulations, all these browser changes that are happening, right? It's not only just Google, right, or Chrome, it's Microsoft Edge, it's Apple.

Everyone's so focused on like billing, fixing, fixing everything with a Band-Aid right now and not thinking long term of the what happens if example, we can't use first party data, right? Everyone's focus on growing first party data absolutely should focus on growing first party data. What if that goes away? Right? What do you do? So try and futureproof yourself by going to events or participating trade or associations, networking with different people outside of your your your, your current circle, your immediate circle.

There's so many places where you can go to now to to meet and get different point of views. And there's so you.

Adam Katz
So you suggest that people don't only listen to your own beliefs. It's really the ultimate goal, right? Because if you if you're open minded and you're willing to debate and still be happy at the end, you see a much a much better world. And I think that's that's great advice.

Angelina Eng
Yeah. And you do get to learn what other people are doing that might be something that you you didn't consider before, right. And you know, new tools, new platforms, new solutions. You know, agents, brands typically rely on agencies for advice. Well, kind of say take the bull by the horns and go out there and do your own homework as well and come up with your own point of view.

Adam Katz
And and where do you see yourself down the road in this What's what's kind of the end game for you and you're thinking?

Angelina Eng
I'll probably wind up being like an adjunct professor or, or a career coach that's (career coach). Maybe a career coach. In my retirement days, my husband's like, You're never going to retire. We talk about retirement right now. You're not going to retire.

Adam Katz
I'm going to. My prediction is I'm going more of a coach than a professor for you. I feel like it one on one. You could be more yourself at times. I feel like you can really help people in more of that one on one setting because people want to be vulnerable and it's it is a little harder in groups.

Angelina Eng
Yeah.

Adam Katz
I think a lot of what you've talked about today is helping people. So I could see the professor angle, but I really see the coach angle, right. And I feel like that's just I, I feel like we've come up with something here. Anything else you want to leave the audience with today before we before we sign off?

I know this has been a very unique episode of Breaking Through the Mayhem but listen, I had a thought of what we would talk about and we just we just quotes. So that's kind of what happened today.

Angelina Eng
I liked it. Final thoughts? I'll I'll quote my favorite say, Ah, which is my kind of motto. And it was from a movie called Robots starring the animated cartoon animated movie with Robin Williams. “Find a need, fill a need.” And what that means -

Adam Katz
I absolutely love that.

Angelina Eng
Yeah. And so look for look for new opportunities to see solve is basically that the premise.

Adam Katz
Well thank you for joining us today.

Angelina Eng
Well thank you for having me.

Adam Katz
All right. Take care, guys.

Sightly
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